Creative Partner Chit Chat
For International Women’s Day we asked Founder Judy Andrews and Creative Partner Pamela Steuri to reflect on their lives, careers and what’s changed for women in the creative industry throughout their time.
Pamela Steuri: For those who don't know already, Judy and I met many years ago at a design agency in London where Judy was creative director and interviewed me for a senior designer role. I remember being intimidated by you, which is strange looking back as I think you're one of the most friendly and approachable people I've ever worked with.
Judy Andrews: Is that true!? I didn’t know that Pam. I think when I met you, you really did stand out for not only your amazing design skills and how you think, but your way with people and how you come across. That’s what really impressed me, and we’ve worked together for many years now, haven’t we?
PS: How many years has it been now? Since 2011?
JA: Ten years. Wow – happy anniversary Pam!
Working in this industry for 20 years you must have seen a shift in culture in that time?
PS: When I first started working as a designer after university, I saw the women around me in senior roles faced with glass ceilings and obvious discrimination. Despite their ambition and talent, they were unable to progress with their careers past a certain level. I was really disheartened with what I saw, and I knew I needed to be in a working environment that valued everyone equally. After that I made the decision to join a design agency with women in the most senior roles (including you, Judy, as creative director) which was a breath of fresh air and a definite shift in culture. Has it been a similar experience for you?
JA: It’s interesting isn’t it. I remember my college lecturer advising me to go by ‘Jude’ when I graduated to be more ambiguous around my sex. Actually, I’ve been mostly fortunate; my first role as a junior designer was with two men in senior roles and they were always very encouraging. My second job, one of the directors was female, and they gave opportunities regardless of gender. And my other roles I was able to grow, develop and progress my career. I’ve only come up against a couple of challenges in my career, once it was suggested that, as a woman, I didn’t have the gravitas needed for a senior role and an older man would be better suited.
PS: Interesting, were you nervous after your lecturer told you to consider changing your name?
JA: A little, I think. She had come from another generation and already the conversation had started to evolve.
What have been some of the positive outcomes of greater parity in your professional life?
JA: My mum was an ambitious, working mum and my dad was supportive of that. So I’ve always thought that it was possible for me to have a career. And my step mum gave me the confidence to leave home in Devon and pursue my dreams of being a designer. I have been given amazing opportunities that I really embraced. I’ve been able to travel the world, work on some iconic brands and have had the privilege to work with some amazing women. There’s been a pressure for women to be more like men the more senior they become. I think those women who have been successful and have stayed true to themselves are the most inspirational to me. What’s great too is that it’s not only creative agencies, but clients. Seeing women in strong roles and working with them collaboratively has been empowering.
PS: I've been lucky enough to work with several inspiring women in senior roles, and I think positive role models are a crucial part of creating lasting changes. My mother had a corporate career and I remember her warning me from a young age about the gender pay gap and glass ceilings that she experienced in her career, so it was always something I expected to face.
Do you think there’s an imbalance in our industry when it comes to women-owned creative agencies?
PS: Absolutely, only 0.1% of creative agencies are founded by women, which is really shocking. The reality isn't great when you look at the senior roles, but there is progress. Apparently, the percentage of women in creative director roles has gone from 3% in 2008 to 29% today.
JA: That’s encouraging, a big shift in just over ten years – although not quite 50/50.
PS: Well, you’re doing your bit to change that!
JA: Absolutely. I first became a Creative Director in 2010 and set up Tickety Boo Creative in 2018. Interestingly, every agency I’ve worked for has been either all owned by men, predominantly or in one case there was one woman who was on the board.
Why did you want to start working for yourself and creating an agency? Was there any hesitancy?
JA: It’s something I always wanted to do. I was told in my second role it was a ‘pipe dream’ and would never happen. Despite this, it was always niggling at the back of my mind. My confidence really grew over the years, in my ability to work collaboratively with clients, understanding how business worked and had pulled together a strong creative team in my role as Creative Director. All which are the foundations you need to start you own agency. As for the why, it was to give myself flexibility. When I had my son, I went back to work for a year and found it incredibly hard – long hours, long commute. Some days I wouldn’t even see my son at all – that was difficult. I thought if I worked for myself, I could have that flexibility. In terms of hesitancy, it was the security of finance – would the mortgage be covered? Before I took the leap, I made sure there was savings to keep me going for a couple of months in case I didn’t get any work. When I made the decision, I started reaching out to design agencies (starting as freelance). I was extremely lucky that very early on I picked up a couple of clients and was able to grow and nurture them.
PS: It’s interesting that in your second role you had expressed a desire to have your own agency early on in your career. Do you remember what your reasons were then? I bet they were different to why it later became a necessity.
JA: That’s a really good question. I suppose I liked the idea of being in creative control (control is a bit of a funny word). Ensuring who I worked with, my clients and my team shared my values, I also loved that idea of building something great. Really interesting question – I’ve not thought back and considered my mindset at the time until now.
Speaking of looking back, if there was a time machine in your garden office, what would you like to tell yourself at the start of your career?
JA: I think my advice would be to be braver. In my entire life – and certainly in the early days – I would play it safe, always. I wish I had taken more risks, been braver, maybe worked abroad early in my career. I’ve found when I’m brave great things happen. The first two jobs I left, I was made redundant, so I had to leave. Who knows if I probably would have still been there.
PS: For me, while it's good to have dreams and goals, keep yourself open to new paths and don't focus too hard on what others measure as 'success'. I don’t know, Jude, starting your own agency is pretty brave. Maybe that safe approach led you to be really brave ultimately.
JA: Ahh yes, maybe you’re right.
Pam, how has life changed since moving to LA after living in the UK for a good chunk of your professional life
PS: It sounds obvious, but the biggest difference is the weather and it's had a huge impact on my professional life. In LA most people enjoy spending time outdoors - hiking, skating, eating, socializing, shopping - it's almost always done outdoors here and coming from London I don't take it for granted at all. Spending time outdoors everyday helps me create healthier daily routines and a better work/life balance. I'm also always inspired by my surroundings - it’s such a colourful city, the architecture, the design, the art - all inspire me daily and give me a fresh perspective which feeds into our creative work as an agency.
What are some of the most important lessons you’ve learned in life?
JA: Be kind always. My dad taught me the importance of being kind, he’s a very kind generous man. You don’t know what people are going through. I used to take it personally if someone was grumpy, angry or upset. It’s about understanding and being kind to everyone, even if they’re not kind to you in that moment.
PS: That’s really important and feeds into our own culture as a team, being supportive of each other in all our different situations – especially during what’s happened in the last year.
What do you feel most grateful or proud of in your life?
PS: From a professional side, I’m incredibly grateful and proud of you, what you’ve built and that I can be a part of it. I love telling people about what Tickety Boo is and how we do things. I’m grateful and proud in equal measure.
JA: Thanks Pam, that really means a lot. I feel like it goes right back to my childhood and having to be responsible from a young age. It makes us all who we are, those early experiences. I’m very proud of what we’ve built, setting up a different way of working. It has a work life balance at its heart and is supportive. It supports working mothers and working fathers, which helps everyone, their partners and gives a better work/life balance. And grateful that I can be supportive to my team. Being able to give that to people feels great – there’s more to life than work, isn’t there?
PS: And when we do work, we love what we do, which isn’t the case for a lot of people, not everyone gets to do what they love.
JA: Definitely – if you love what you do, you’re happier and you do a better job.
What does the future of TBC hold?
JA: I’d love to maintain our work/life balance, but I believe we have a pioneering spirit in how we do things differently. Besides a few exciting things brewing in the background, I’d like us to push the boundaries of how we work, how we evolve and continue to inspire and empower others with creativity.